GO TEAM DISCUSSION! #001
Caution: The purpose of this post is to encourage discussion, thought and discourse (Which is really the same as discussion. Yay, redundancy!).
You know, I have been browsing through quite a few blogs over the last few days and the one thing that really strikes me is the fact that there are a lot of naive/idealistic people around. "But Josh, why do you put naive and idealistic people in the same category?" Well, the reason I do that is because you will always find one when you find the other. On the other hand I would put myself in the other end of the life's spectrum where the sign reads 'Cynic/Realist'.
Now, I know that 22 (And a half!! =) ) is not that old, but it is fair to say that I'm a little more experienced than I used to be. I used to find myself amusing when I was younger (to be fair, I still do to a certain extent) but now, more and more, I just find myself mostly...musing these days. I digress. Having tasted both sides, I can say that I am firmly in the latter camp. While I recognize that my experiences have changed me from an idealist to a realist, it is not a measure of how mature I am nor is it a definitive change from childishness into maturity.
My aim here really is not to stereotype one group or to form any definitive opinion. Idealistic people are not all bubbling, overflowing vessels of youthful passion nor are all realist machine zombies trudging through life utterly devoid of hope.
So, I am curious about what YOU think YOU are and what YOUR thoughts are on the subject. Please post all relevant replies in the comments section, not the shoutbox.
posted by Josh at
4:04 PM
.jpg)
17 Comments:
hey, josh. i think i'll make a small contribution. it's a worthy cause, right?
i suppose i'm in the "realist" camp. anyway, yeah, i know what you mean about there being a lot of naive and/or idealistic people around. you would think that being under the Malaysian government for say.."their entire natural lives so far" would put a stop to this, but hey, i guess not.
i think there'll always be "naive" people, since naivete is so very relative. what really bothers me though, is ignorance. the truly naive probably don't know what they don't know. the willfully ignorant, on the other hand, know how much they don't know, and simply don't care.
January 12, 2008 at 4:24 AM
being idealistic doesn't mean you are naive... i want to join the idealistic realist camp.
January 12, 2008 at 2:33 PM
josh why la only bloggers can comment.... i dunno how my name came out like this la...
January 12, 2008 at 2:34 PM
i think there's a difference between an idealist, and a realist with ideals.
aaron (i don't feel like logging in again with my other blogger account)
January 12, 2008 at 6:20 PM
i agree with lawl..I mean aaron.I mean,you've got to be "real" about something right..and those Ideals are a counterweight to that something..at least thats my own understanding of it la..
I'm definitely not idealistic..but I'm not really a realist either..I'm not naive,I can be cynical..but I cant stand negativity..so I conclude that what I am,is simply just Isaac..
that didnt make sense did it?
ok..lets keep it that way..
January 12, 2008 at 9:00 PM
Perhaps I was wrong about being either BLACK or WHITE when most people are GREY. It is just what shade of GREY you are, really. Like Aaron said, there is a huge difference between having ideals and being idealistic.
Jared: Being idealistic DOES mean you are naive. Again, like Aaron said, naive/idealistic people fall within two categories: 'ignorant' and 'willfully ignorant'. Which basically distills down to just 'innocent' or 'stupid'.
January 14, 2008 at 1:23 PM
you said that you been reading blogs, and that's what caused you to write this post...maybe you could give some examples of naivete...
because some of the most learned people who ever lived were idealists. oh maybe your definition of idealist is different from mine.
idealism: the pursuit and cherishing of high or noble principles, purposes, goals...basically being idealistic means pursuing what is ideal.
if someone were to believe in an ideal world then maybe u can call that someone naive because that ideal world of course doesn't exist... but if somebody believes that an ideal world is possible and can be made real by his/her actions...
if u still call that person innocent/stupid, then we need more ignorant idiots in this world...
January 14, 2008 at 10:08 PM
i agree with jared. i'm an idealist. i'm not naive. i'm hopeful. and i believe that i can make a difference.
January 14, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Yeah. Agreed with jared. Sometimes being ideal does not mean they are being naive, these two groups often don't go well together. Ideal and stubborn yes.
January 14, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Okay, let's see. Where do I start.
Bernard: Actually, you're wrong about that. Idealistic and naive DO go well together. In fact, they go so well together, they're synonyms. Sure, Jared has quoted me dictionary.com's definition of idealistic, but it has not fully encompassed the whole definition of the word. Here's a link: http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/idealistic (Sigh, cannot use the url tag =( ). You should really check the first two entries which relate the word idealistic to two things: visionary and illusionary. Um, let me see if I can remember enough of my OOP (Object Oriented Programming for the non-programming inclined people) to give you a reference. Naive is a class and a sub-class of Idealistic at the same time, whereas Stubborn is merely a sub-class. (I know I probably have it wrong, but I'm sure you know what I mean)
Jared: I really wouldn't want to give examples of blogs that I've read because I'm afriad that the people I've referenced might stumble over this and take offence. But you know, I really can see where I've made my mistake. In the initial post, I said that my aim was not to stereotype any group but by debating this I've managed to stereotype both the groups into neat little packages. In the comment I made just before this one, I mentioned that it's not necessarily whether you're BLACK or WHITE but rather which shade of GREY you are. Idealistic CAN mean naive but it also can mean the definition that you've posted up. While I may be steadfast realist, I do hold ideals. What do that make me? A realist with ideals. I am just a darker shade of grey where, on the other hand, you could call yourself pure white, white, a whiter shade of grey or whatever you like, really. Now, it's your turn to explain to me what the difference is between 'a person who believes in an ideal world' and 'a person who believes that the ideal world is possible' because I don't really see it. I will admit I have been a little harsh (I think) on the idealistic people posting here.
Jean: re: Jared.
P.S. Being ignorant should not be used in a negative context. It just means 'I wasn't taught'. 'Stupid', on the other hand...
P.P.S. Yeow, this is as long as my initial post.
January 15, 2008 at 10:34 AM
sorry bernard =p... i think definitely alot or even most idealists are naive...but once the world hits em they lose their innocence and become cynical and real...
the naive idealists are the ones that believe in an ideal world... they think the world they are in now is beautiful blablabla...
but someone who knows that the world right now is not ideal, but believes that we should pursue that goal... that is what i mean by someone who believes an ideal world is possible...
January 15, 2008 at 2:51 PM
ok..now that thats over..can we have a new post?
January 15, 2008 at 4:29 PM
eh...josh, would you like to contribute to the Think Tank? short post like these that readers can comment on?
i agree that a lot of idealists can be naive. and yeah, those two groups definitely do go together pretty well. but saying that being idealistic is synonymous to being naive is quite harsh. haha...
and after rethinking it, i think i cannot totally say that i am absolutely not naive. i have my days. it's not such a bad thing to be.
i have more to say. but lazy...haha.
January 16, 2008 at 1:51 AM
short posts like this***(sorry!)
January 16, 2008 at 1:53 AM
Hmmm, I don't know. I only tend to write when I have a sudden 'seizure' of inspiration. I haven't written to any sort of timetable for a loooong time. Haha, I'll think about it, I guess. I'll let you know soon. =)
January 16, 2008 at 9:48 AM
you know what i am? i am a genius.
February 15, 2008 at 6:57 PM
Ok so i'm a lil behind on this post but oh well.. who cares if anyone reads this..
Well it does depend on what kinda idealist that person is. If they realise the extent to which the world is screwed up and intends to pursue "a better tommorrow!" or something like cheaper petrol prices, with tangible steps and is actually put in that position to be able to carry it out, then good la! You can't really call that person naive. I always think of idealists as dreamers but if you couple that with proactivity (is that a word?) then you get a good end result. Maybe not IDEAL but better than before. It'll b better for ALL of us so don't condemn that.
But if all that person does is dream and stops at that, ahhh, that person can go live off fresh air and sunshine la... At the rate we're going, we'll probably run out of fresh air and sunshine too. *ok so this is a lil irrelevent but yay redundancy!*
I'm 17 and i've never been idealist. Being naive might go with age but being idealisic doesn't. But ignorance IS sometimes bliss and well, whatever floats you boat. Idealists and naivetes sleep better dreaming of rainbows and fairies or whatever it is they dream of.
But there IS a balance to strike and which shade of grey is the best depends on the individual. A pinch of reality, a dash of the ability to dream. A whole lot of optimism to get you through the day. Add cynism to taste but drown with CONTENTMENT with what you already have.. or is that balance an idealistic thought as well? Go figure..
March 28, 2008 at 12:30 PM
Post a Comment
Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]
<< Home